Bring back the poster/group/size toolbar?

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Do you want to bring back the Poster/MinKB/MaxKB/MinDays/MaxDays toolbar?

Yes. (I prefer the old toolbar)
34
89%
No. (I like the new 'advanced search' menu)
3
8%
Yes/No (I like the new menu, but it needs history of previous entries)
1
3%
 
Total votes: 38

quickly
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:00 pm

Post by quickly » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:55 pm

is the toolbar to filter poster names and size now available in beta 8?
without that i wont renew my subscription.

quickly
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:00 pm

Post by quickly » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:56 pm

the question is still present and unanswered.
whats with the question toolbar?

quickly
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:00 pm

Post by quickly » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:13 pm

can we get an answer please?
as long this is not done, i wont renew anymore. i can live with my 4.0 beta 17.

User avatar
Spiril
Site Admin
Posts: 4234
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Post by Spiril » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:27 pm

The plan is to have a button on the toolbar, that will open the 'Advanced Searching' dialog, but it's not there yet.

For now, though, you can simply double-tab the F3 key to open the dialog.

... Or enter the "poster:name" and "minKB:kb" syntax directly into the filter box.

Isn't that sufficient ?
bug fixed. no idea how. hate it when that happens. trying to break it again now. will. not. be. defeated.

quickly
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:00 pm

Post by quickly » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:37 pm

Spiril wrote:
Isn't that sufficient ?
no. the old way was much better. i dont know, why there were always old working things removed, and replaced with new crap.
why should i type in the word poster, if there was a own box?
so ill stay with 4.17

Andreas
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:56 pm

Post by Andreas » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:52 am

Spiril wrote:Isn't that sufficient ?
Yes, for me, that's sufficient.

kel
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:46 pm

Post by kel » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:49 pm

Agreed. I find no reasonable explanation why usage of local search has been having features constantly removed and/or made harder to use. The impression such actions create is that the author is just purposefully destroying local search to increase the value of SuperSearch.

I'd love to see some fixes and restoration of features that have been broken in local search but I doubt it as the continued development and emphasis is on trying to sell the SuperSearch service at the expensive of the main program's usage and feature set.
-
Seriously wish the missing features of local search and the features that have been broken/removed from local search but left in or in some cases improved on the SuperSearch would be fixed/restored and improved upon on for local search. - More details: http://www.newsleecher.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&p=127938#p127938

kel
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:46 pm

Re: Bring back the poster/group/size toolbar?

Post by kel » Sat May 02, 2015 6:56 pm

4 years later, still the same issues.
4 years later, features removed from local search still exist in SuperSearch.
4 years later, still no word on if/when Spiril will get around to restoring features to Local Search that existed before, still exist in Super Search, and have been broken or purposefully removed from Local Search in a rather less than honest attempt to increase SuperSearch value.
4 years later and still no reasons as to why ease of use was made much worse for Local Search, and no improvements.
4 Years later, and still the problem of constant downtimes and missing articles in SuperSearch that if Local Search worked as well as SuperSearch (pr preferred as well as it used to) would be less of a problem.
-
Seriously wish the missing features of local search and the features that have been broken/removed from local search but left in or in some cases improved on the SuperSearch would be fixed/restored and improved upon on for local search. - More details: http://www.newsleecher.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&p=127938#p127938

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Quaraxkad
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:34 am

Re: Bring back the poster/group/size toolbar?

Post by Quaraxkad » Sat May 02, 2015 7:20 pm

What exactly do you think is missing? All of the search functions available in SuperSearch are also available in the Articles browser. Is your only complaint now that there isn't a toolbar with 100 text box filters and it's now instead a much more reasonable dialog box?
Last edited by Quaraxkad on Sun May 03, 2015 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kel
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:46 pm

Re: Bring back the poster/group/size toolbar?

Post by kel » Sun May 03, 2015 3:27 am

Quaraxkad wrote:What exactly do you think is missing? All of the search functions available in SuperSearch are also available in the Articles browser. Is your only complaint now that there isn't a toolbar with 100 text box filters and it's not instead a much more reasonable dialog box?
I would suggest you re-read this thread. I just tested 7.0 Beta 7 and nearly every item I mentioned is still an issue with Local Search versus Super Search.

As for the dialog versus toolbar.
Yeah, a toolbar that is mostly empty is useless (hey, here is an idea, allow adding/hiding the option on the toolbar).
Heck, one could even make the entire toolbar optional.
-
Seriously wish the missing features of local search and the features that have been broken/removed from local search but left in or in some cases improved on the SuperSearch would be fixed/restored and improved upon on for local search. - More details: http://www.newsleecher.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&p=127938#p127938

User avatar
Quaraxkad
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Re: Bring back the poster/group/size toolbar?

Post by Quaraxkad » Sun May 03, 2015 3:32 am

I have read the thread, and as for items *you* mentioned are issues, you haven't mentioned any other than to say you want them back. Whatever they are. What features are missing? All of the advanced search boxes are still available, they're just not in a toolbar anymore.

Is it really THAT big of a deal to not have an extra toolbar? Especially when there's a perfectly legitimate reason why the toolbar was replaced with the dialog. There are now four functions that use search filters, it makes perfect sense to unify the searching system across all four. The old toolbar would only work for half of them, why make it more complicated than it has to be with four different search systems in one program?

kel
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:46 pm

Re: Bring back the poster/group/size toolbar?

Post by kel » Sun May 03, 2015 3:41 am

Quaraxkad wrote:I have read the thread, and as for items *you* mentioned are issues, you haven't mentioned any other than to say you want them back. Whatever they are. What features are missing? All of the advanced search boxes are still available, they're just not in a toolbar anymore.

Is it really THAT big of a deal to not have an extra toolbar? Especially when there's a perfectly legitimate reason why the toolbar was replaced with the dialog. There are now four functions that use search filters, it makes perfect sense to unify the searching system across all four. The old toolbar would only work for half of them, why make it more complicated than it has to be with four different search systems in one program?
Clearly you did not read the thread if you think all the features that used to be a part of search are now on the dialog.
Clearly you did not read the thread if you think that local search performs as well as it used to, or as well as SuperSearch.
kel wrote:Just had to kick in my vote for bringing back filter bar.

Missing options that used to exist for searching:

Searching by part of a file name or even just a file extension for items that are part of a collection/grouping.
Poster Excludes - Yeah you can Settings|Group Browsing|Filters:Poster, but most times you need to just filter from a set of results on your active search and not everywhere.
Hide/Show Downloaded
Hide/Show Binary
Hide/Show Non Binary
Hide/Show Incomplete

Local search has really been getting raked over the coals with vanishing features.

SS has also had some features removed but some still work.
Example of a feature that still works on SS, searching by all or part of a filename still works in SS.
Like alt.binaries.freeware, assume your news host has and sends headers inclusive of 2/9/2010.
Go to articles tab, search OpenOffice you'll find the collection for "OpenOffice_3_2". Expand the collection and confirm the existence of part05.rar in the collection.
Next try to search specifically for "OpenOffice_3_2.part05.rar" and notice nothing will show up.
now try searching for ".part05.rar" and again still won't see it.
Go to SS and try the same search for "OpenOffice_3_2.part05.rar" and you'll find the item as expected.
Next try ".part05.rar Group:alt.binaries.freeware" and you'll be able to find the part.
Now I can't find the post but back when 4.0 was in beta I remember reading this searching issue was supposed to be addressed before 4.0 went final. Either it was not addressed, or it was broken again in the 5.x line.
kel wrote:And just another reason why these search features should be improved and restored to local searching.

SuperSearch has been massively missing articles and incomplete on many occasions without having filled in said incomplete header lists, especially the past week for some groups. So we get forced into using Supersearch due to vanishing features and functionality (some of which only now exist in SuperSeacrh) and then Supersearch itself is not maintained and complete. That is just rotten.

Please fix and restore the functionality to local searching.
As you can see by my examples here, there are difference between Super Search and Local Search. So different search systems/options are being maintained anyway despite your assertion they are using the same code base and feature set. Especially given different searches will yield differing results (as in the open office example). Note: I am too lazy to find a post-able example from current headers, but I did test and the same issue exists using an article set that is not able to be posted due to the policies here against mentioning certain article type names.
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Seriously wish the missing features of local search and the features that have been broken/removed from local search but left in or in some cases improved on the SuperSearch would be fixed/restored and improved upon on for local search. - More details: http://www.newsleecher.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&p=127938#p127938

User avatar
Quaraxkad
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:34 am

Re: Bring back the poster/group/size toolbar?

Post by Quaraxkad » Sun May 03, 2015 3:48 pm

The "vanishing local search" features as you refer to them were all removed as a result of the new grouped-set header cache feature. They can not come back. The old method is obsolete with the new grouped headers. They were removed or changed because they don't work anymore. Not only for technical reasons, but for logic reasons.

The advanced dialog system IS identical between all four (two search, two filter), the only difference is a few hidden boxes (on the same singular dialog) where they wouldn't (and can't) work and are irrelevant.

Comparing local filters to results from SuperSearch queries is not relevant because those are "searches", not "filters". *They* work because of the header format stored on the SS servers. It does not work for local filters because of the highly-compressed local cache format, and hacking those old filters to make them work would require reverting results to non-grouped headers.

And if you want to be fair, the filtering system of SuperSearch is somewhat *less* powerful than the local header filters. Because SS only "filters" subject names, everything else has to be baked into the search query and re-submitted.


If there is a filter you genuinely need, state it clearly. Provide your reasoning why it's important. Maybe the developer will look into it. As it is now, you're just being abrasive and dismissive and demanding a return of an obsolete system.

kel
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:46 pm

Re: Bring back the poster/group/size toolbar?

Post by kel » Sun May 03, 2015 7:22 pm

Quaraxkad wrote:The "vanishing local search" features as you refer to them were all removed as a result of the new grouped-set header cache feature. They can not come back. The old method is obsolete with the new grouped headers. They were removed or changed because they don't work anymore. Not only for technical reasons, but for logic reasons.

The advanced dialog system IS identical between all four (two search, two filter), the only difference is a few hidden boxes (on the same singular dialog) where they wouldn't (and can't) work and are irrelevant.

Comparing local filters to results from SuperSearch queries is not relevant because those are "searches", not "filters". *They* work because of the header format stored on the SS servers. It does not work for local filters because of the highly-compressed local cache format, and hacking those old filters to make them work would require reverting results to non-grouped headers.

And if you want to be fair, the filtering system of SuperSearch is somewhat *less* powerful than the local header filters. Because SS only "filters" subject names, everything else has to be baked into the search query and re-submitted.


If there is a filter you genuinely need, state it clearly. Provide your reasoning why it's important. Maybe the developer will look into it. As it is now, you're just being abrasive and dismissive and demanding a return of an obsolete system.
Actually, you are the one being dismissive of features that have no technical reason for not being included. All of which used to work, and you've not provided a single technical reason why they don't. The closest you've come is the disparity in search results ala OpenOffice (something that was stated would be fixed back when the header storage format was changed).
This could easily be worked around since the file details of what files are a part of the collection are saved. Exact matches on items like "OpenOffice_3_2.part05.rar" would be easy. Look for collections or loose files listed with that exact name just as the search currently does now. None found, second pass, search the collections for a collection with files named "OpenOffice_3_2" just as search does now, and then do a new check inside the collection for the ".part05.rar" as all the files part of a collection are saved with the saved headers.
If you don't think this is possible, perform this technical experiment:

Code: Select all

Download the headers for a group.  After done, completely pull your network cable.  Close Newsleecher.  Open Newsleecher. Open the group whose headers you downloaded in the article browser, pick any collection and expand it.  Notice all the files listed all while completely offline with no internet because you pulled your network cable.  The data is available to be presented, therefor it is available to be searched.  It will even show you which particular files of a collection are incomplete (further proving it has per file information).  As such, there exists no technical reason to not fix the search and filter system for local searches (there is a financial one, selling SuperSearch Service). 
Facts are awesome, especially when one can easily show the data to support them.

Options such as these can work in all the search types as they all (except poster exclude) get labelled currently when the result sets are displayed.
The same highlighting code that already exists and is in use today could be used as part of a hide/show code set:
Poster Excludes - Yeah you can Settings|Group Browsing|Filters:Poster, but most times you need to just filter from a set of results on your active search and not everywhere. In fact most times a global hide of particular posts identity by name/email is NOT preferred.
Hide/Show Downloaded
Hide/Show Binary
Hide/Show Non Binary
Hide/Show Incomplete

You can currently disable the highlighting without performing new searches, giving further evidence the same code could be used, is dynamic, and is a filter.

As I said, you are are being dismissive, abrasive, and rude by saying a set of features that used to exist, that people used, that people want back, and have no technical reason for not being returned (since the data, highlighting system and code could be used, exists, and works already) should not be returned or requested to be returned. Even when the evidence shows all are possible. All while failing to provide any reasoning or actual technical proofs as to why people should NOT want such features or such features are not feasible.
-
Seriously wish the missing features of local search and the features that have been broken/removed from local search but left in or in some cases improved on the SuperSearch would be fixed/restored and improved upon on for local search. - More details: http://www.newsleecher.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&p=127938#p127938

kel
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:46 pm

Re: Bring back the poster/group/size toolbar?

Post by kel » Sun May 17, 2015 12:00 am

Quaraxkad, I'd certainly be interested if your results to the suggested test were different than those I laid out and predicted.
kel wrote:If you don't think this is possible, perform this technical experiment:

Code: Select all

Download the headers for a group.  After done, completely pull your network cable.  Close Newsleecher.  Open Newsleecher. Open the group whose headers you downloaded in the article browser, pick any collection and expand it.  Notice all the files listed all while completely offline with no internet because you pulled your network cable.  The data is available to be presented, therefor it is available to be searched.  It will even show you which particular files of a collection are incomplete (further proving it has per file information).  As such, there exists no technical reason to not fix the search and filter system for local searches (there is a financial one, selling SuperSearch Service). 
-
Seriously wish the missing features of local search and the features that have been broken/removed from local search but left in or in some cases improved on the SuperSearch would be fixed/restored and improved upon on for local search. - More details: http://www.newsleecher.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&p=127938#p127938

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