Any full 64 bit version in near future?

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Zocor
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Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 2:40 pm
Location: Netherlands
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Any full 64 bit version in near future?

Post by Zocor »

Hi.

Now the x64 operating systems start to get common use, is there any chance that NL is going to make the step to real x64 support?

Z, 8)

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Smudge
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Post by Smudge »

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betax

Post by betax »

Short answer never.Spiril claims no one will need it for "consumer type apps" and only "servers" gain extra productivity.
viewtopic.php?p=78242#78254

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Smudge
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Post by Smudge »

It will happen next year but as he said, general applications do not need it.

32 bit is like owning 1 car in a 2 car sized garage. You only use the 1 space even though more is available.

Now 64 bit is like still owning 1 car but having a 10 car sized garage. You still will only be using 1 space.

For most end-user applications, the 1 car space is just fine. For server applications, it may need all 10 spaces.
Please be aware of and use the following pages...
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betax

Post by betax »

Smudge wrote:It will happen next year but as he said, general applications do not need it.
Or he cant program it to adequtly use a 64 bit namespace?...
Smudge wrote: 32 bit is like owning 1 car in a 2 car sized garage. You only use the 1 space even though more is available.

Now 64 bit is like still owning 1 car but having a 10 car sized garage. You still will only be using 1 space.

For most end-user applications, the 1 car space is just fine. For server applications, it may need all 10 spaces.
viewtopic.php?p=78242#78254
Read that thread again.
There are countless reasons to use a 64bit app,and why they are needed.

Are you on a mac? is that why you cannot fathom running a 64-bit environment?
Get with the times,read the articles on 64-bit(Not ones from early 200x's but more recent times) and you will see a need and a demand for them(in NON server applications)

Also what if you have a FLE and a single car garage.Thats like 10 fles can fit in a single car garage.Whats your logic on that one?

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Quaraxkad
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Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:34 am

Post by Quaraxkad »

betax wrote:Spiril claims no one will need it for "consumer type apps" and only "servers" gain extra productivity.
betax wrote:Or he cant program it to adequtly use a 64 bit namespace?...
betax wrote:viewtopic.php?p=78242#78254
Read that thread again.
I think it's safe to say that the developer knows a LOT more about how/if HIS program will benefit from 64-bit than you do. Nobody is denying that 64-bit has advantages, but in this particular case the developer sees little to no advantages. If it's that big of a deal to you, you make it sound like you think you are a godly coder: do it yourself.

betax

Post by betax »

Quaraxkad wrote:
betax wrote:Spiril claims no one will need it for "consumer type apps" and only "servers" gain extra productivity.
betax wrote:Or he cant program it to adequtly use a 64 bit namespace?...
betax wrote:viewtopic.php?p=78242#78254
Read that thread again.
I think it's safe to say that the developer knows a LOT more about how/if HIS program will benefit from 64-bit than you do. Nobody is denying that 64-bit has advantages, but in this particular case the developer sees little to no advantages. If it's that big of a deal to you, you make it sound like you think you are a godly coder: do it yourself.
If you would read the post you would see my position.
Newsleecher consumes upward of 4gb of ram just sitting pretty idling with no explorer no RnE no supersearch.Has done this since v3 stable.
Even on a fresh install(install xp/vista/2000/whatever updated the os then install newsleecher) it consumes it.Tried different hardware(incase RAM was going bad(checked with mem64)

I KNOW it will benifit from running in a x64 enviorment if he can implement it properly.It will allow larger amounts of data to be handled and will less likely suffer from memory leaks.
While i am not a "godly" coder,i am "godly" enough to know DELPHI is a dead language that is not keeping up with the times. :wink:
It seems as though he PURPOSLY dosent listen to his CUSTOMERS.
Sure "delphi can not has x64 yet nex yer" is a nice excuse so we will see.But denying other features/improvements just because HE personally dosent think it will matter is ridiculous.

js15john
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:52 am

64 bit answer

Post by js15john »

I found NewsBin Pro 5.42 - Build 8974 works great and it's 64 bit.
Sorry I won't be renewing Newsleecher!!!

John Sanders

juggie
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:17 pm

Post by juggie »

betax wrote: If you would read the post you would see my position.
Newsleecher consumes upward of 4gb of ram just sitting pretty idling with no explorer no RnE no supersearch.Has done this since v3 stable.
Even on a fresh install(install xp/vista/2000/whatever updated the os then install newsleecher) it consumes it.Tried different hardware(incase RAM was going bad(checked with mem64)

I KNOW it will benifit from running in a x64 enviorment if he can implement it properly.It will allow larger amounts of data to be handled and will less likely suffer from memory leaks.
While i am not a "godly" coder,i am "godly" enough to know DELPHI is a dead language that is not keeping up with the times. :wink:
It seems as though he PURPOSLY dosent listen to his CUSTOMERS.
Sure "delphi can not has x64 yet nex yer" is a nice excuse so we will see.But denying other features/improvements just because HE personally dosent think it will matter is ridiculous.
If newsleecher is using 4gb on you then i would imagine that there may be another issue at play (memory leak) but it is certainly not because your binary is 32bit.. NL memory for me jumps around a bit between 20-70mb. Are you downloading headers for any groups?

Having a binary compiled into 64bit will *NOT* magically fix memory leaks. That is not how this stuff works, 64bit also does *NOT* give any magic performance increase, though it may give a slight one, but the major advantage of 64bit is a process being able to address more then 4gb of memory at once, thats about it. So as you can imagine that helps tremendously for say a database application which can now address more then 4gb without the overhead of PAE, but does not matter so much for newsleecher.

In short, if newsleecher is using that much memory you have other issues. Please report a bug on those, not complain because you think 64bit is the holy grail and will fix all your problems.

betax

Post by betax »

juggie wrote:
betax wrote: If you would read the post you would see my position.
Newsleecher consumes upward of 4gb of ram just sitting pretty idling with no explorer no RnE no supersearch.Has done this since v3 stable.
Even on a fresh install(install xp/vista/2000/whatever updated the os then install newsleecher) it consumes it.Tried different hardware(incase RAM was going bad(checked with mem64)

I KNOW it will benifit from running in a x64 enviorment if he can implement it properly.It will allow larger amounts of data to be handled and will less likely suffer from memory leaks.
While i am not a "godly" coder,i am "godly" enough to know DELPHI is a dead language that is not keeping up with the times. :wink:
It seems as though he PURPOSLY dosent listen to his CUSTOMERS.
Sure "delphi can not has x64 yet nex yer" is a nice excuse so we will see.But denying other features/improvements just because HE personally dosent think it will matter is ridiculous.
If newsleecher is using 4gb on you then i would imagine that there may be another issue at play (memory leak) but it is certainly not because your binary is 32bit.. NL memory for me jumps around a bit between 20-70mb. Are you downloading headers for any groups?

Having a binary compiled into 64bit will *NOT* magically fix memory leaks. That is not how this stuff works, 64bit also does *NOT* give any magic performance increase, though it may give a slight one, but the major advantage of 64bit is a process being able to address more then 4gb of memory at once, thats about it. So as you can imagine that helps tremendously for say a database application which can now address more then 4gb without the overhead of PAE, but does not matter so much for newsleecher.

In short, if newsleecher is using that much memory you have other issues. Please report a bug on those, not complain because you think 64bit is the holy grail and will fix all your problems.
I think you should go read a little bit more,64 bit benefits more then just "database applications".Its not just limited to Memory reservations.
Its my fault when using 2 different machines with 2 different brands of RAM?
Two different operating systems (Vista Ultimate X64,Windows XP X64)?
Two different architectures?
The chance of that happening is slim to none.

After using newsleecher for the day lets say.I can leave it idle over night to find it is consuming shitloads of ram SITTING IDLE.
NOT CONNECTED
NO RNE
NO EXPLORER TAB
NO SUPERSEARCH
NO ACTIVE GROUPS OPEN

Just sitting there at the servers tab waiting pretty...

Bugs are reported to deaf ears.This has been happening since 3.6(Have since reinstalled BOTH OS's)

sheepshagger
Posts: 457
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:00 pm

Post by sheepshagger »

a 64bit version wont fix that issue you are seeing

asmithz
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:53 am

Post by asmithz »

Quaraxkad wrote:
betax wrote:Spiril claims no one will need it for "consumer type apps" and only "servers" gain extra productivity.
betax wrote:Or he cant program it to adequtly use a 64 bit namespace?...
betax wrote:viewtopic.php?p=78242#78254
Read that thread again.
I think it's safe to say that the developer knows a LOT more about how/if HIS program will benefit from 64-bit than you do. Nobody is denying that 64-bit has advantages, but in this particular case the developer sees little to no advantages. If it's that big of a deal to you, you make it sound like you think you are a godly coder: do it yourself.
I agree with you that the developer knows a lot about his program, but you are mistaken. He said himself that there will be a 64bit version towards the end of the year, once it is possible for him to compile it in 64bit. So to say he knows for sure it won't speed things up is fabrication.

64bit has been proven to give a small increase in most applications. Also Delphi is a outdated slow language. So combining this two (Delphi/32bit) makes it slow as a slug. Change one or both, not only will it make the program faster, it will also make customers happy.

juggie
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:17 pm

Post by juggie »

I encourage you to open windows task manager and see how many processes are actually running in 64bit mode. (you can tell by the * at the end of the process name, or the lack of a *, i forget which is which) none the less, you'll find a healthy combination of both process types.

One thing compiling in 64bit does do is it ensures that certain x86 extensions are guaranteed to be available, eg SSE2, as such the compiler can make more code optimizations for those processor types. It still won't fix your memory leak however and i suggest you find a way to report that issue.

ailef
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:18 pm

Post by ailef »

it's enough with 32bit MS systems,
vista 64 is actually the best OS MS released,
xp 64 was bad, too many apps didnt work,
it's not the case with vista 64, 99% of apps are working.
what's the advantage of vista 64 ?
kernel guardian, digitally signed drivers, it's good to secure users.
and if u think XP 32 is secure and far better, just watch those 3 pictures, it's a comodo tool with 34 exploits to test security, each exploit blocked gives 10 points for the OS.
tested : xp pro SP3
http://ailef.neuf.fr/COMODO_34_Leaktest ... t_xp32.htm
VISTA 32bit
http://ailef.neuf.fr/COMODO_34_Leaktest ... ista32.htm
VISTA 64bit
http://ailef.neuf.fr/COMODO_34_Leaktest ... ista64.htm

the 3 OS were tested without any protection, even the microsoft ones, like the windows firewall, windows defender, UAC, no protection,
so u can see if the systems the way they're coded are able to block known exploits.
now vista 64bit is not a gadget as u can see, and MS is going on with 32bit with windows 7, it's time to end the 32bit,
and for people using xp, u see the result, this OS was good but now it's over, vista 32 is able to protect itself way better,
and vista 64 is the best solution, the fact they added kernel guardian and digitally signed drivers have a real impact on security.
xp without any protection will be corrupted very fast of course, just surf the web and it's done, vista 32 is more secure than xp as we read all the time that it's not true, those exploits are knowns ones, u can test by yourself, and now for all MS users, the logical choice is the 64bit,
and coders stay with 32bit, my vista 64 runs on a xpsM1330, so i got all drivers digit signed by MS.
if u want to go for vista 64, check for drivers before...
and team coders that are powerfull got 64bit apps, got 64bit drivers,
so yes, we dont care to install 8GB (my laptop support 2X4GB) ???
and do u know virtual apps ?
u can install OS and use it without take care about security, u just take a snapshot then u can do what u want, in general, it's not usual for a malware to escape the virtual machine, there was a bug in VMware and it was possible to take control over the host machine, actually i'm not sure it's really fixed or not, but secure sites will tell.
so u cant say vista 64 is not better than others MS systems,
that's strange that coders stay in their xp 32, without any 64bit version for vista.
what's the real problem ? u have to totally rewrite the app ?
i don't know, i don't code, just a question...
and about newsbin pro, ok there's a 64 bit version but
newsleecher is just the only usenet client with this level of quality,
others competitors are so far away,
who has an exemple of a client as good as newsleecher ?
there's nothing, newsleecher is the only choice, there's no comparaison with others clients,
this app is great, and coder is doing an awesome job.
anyway if it works in 32bit on vista 64, it's ok,
the prob is no team code for 64bit,
people always complain, we don't need this, that,
then all got one, remember cellular?
and xp on start, all were telling it was crap, same for vista now, except i got vista until the beginning and i never had 1 bsod, desktop and laptop, not 1, incredible, so when i read that vista is not stable, i wonder if people use it or they know nothing and are able to kill any OS in 5 min.

ailef
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:18 pm

Post by ailef »

in fact i just checked on xp and newsleecher just opened doing nothing uses zero cpu ressource and like 11MB of ram.
and on vista 64 , doing nothing it can goes to 8% cpu and uses 32MB, so newsleecher works bad on 64bit, how comes it needs 8% max doing nothing as zero on xp 32 and all this ram used...
strange...
i just checked, even if the 64bit version is not here for now, it's not possible to improve the code to get it working the same as it does on xp32? cause with all those apps not able to run using the same ressources as 32bit OS, soon we'll need 8GB...

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