NewsLeecher V4.0 Beta 16

Forum to report beta release bugs and discuss the latest beta releases with other users.
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terrestrial
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:19 pm

Re: You need to appologize

Post by terrestrial »

the doctor wrote:
You are referring to a BETA (still in development - even if it is now in release candidate status, it is still a beta testing version).

Why are you being so hostile and rude?

Development is what BETA versions are all about - I use v4 b16 because it has implemented improvements over previous versions. Yes there are items that do not work or are missing - It is still in BETA (test) status. In beta versions things will not work and may be missing.

DO NOT USE THE BETA VERSION IF YOU EXPECT A COMPLETED AND FULLY RUNNING PROGRAM.

Once NL4 is released as a Final release, the points you present will be valid, but not now and never presented in so rude and childish a fashion.

We are all intelligent adults here (at least most of us are) and there is no need to be rude (to everyone) and so childish.
Dude, Are you kiddin me?

The damn program has been in BETA for almost 2 years now and is still full of bugs that don't get get resolved easy. Spiril keeps adding new features which we don't directly need but creating tons of new bugs. We need stable code and a final release first!!!

I think we all have every right to complain about many things here and ofcourse it's easy to say if you don't like it stay away. But we all like the newsleecher concept, that is when it works like it should and what we're paying for. It seems this is sort of a hobby project for Spiril because he laks some serious commitment to his customers.

I mean look at Supersearch, great powerful tool which in every way is better then all those other free usenet indexers, but the rentention is half it should be and there is many disruptions in service.

Spiril should be obligated to bring out a final release every 6 months. I think that's reasonable and then we know what to expect. And maybe he should hire some people with lots of programming skills/expericene to kill all the bugs for him.

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the doctor
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Post by the doctor »

The damn program has been in BETA for almost 2 years now and is still full of bugs that don't get get resolved easy. Spiril keeps adding new features which we don't directly need but creating tons of new bugs. We need stable code and a final release first!!!
Yes, we have a right to report problems in a polite and mature manner - NOT in a rude and childish manner, such as the poster I quoted had done.

No, we do not have a right to complain - THIS IS A BETA (TEST VERSION).

If you use the beta version then you accept that you are using a test version. Live with it or go back to using the 3.95 (the last Final Release).

If version 4 gets to final release version with the problems not resolved - THAT IS THE TIME WE HAVE A RIGHT TO COMPLAIN, BUT NOT UNTIL THEN.

Unitil Final Version, report problems or missing features in a mature, polite, and respectful manner.

It does not matter how long the beta version has been in beta - it is still a beta - by using it, you accept the test nature of the beta.

A new version is a service to the users - it is not an obligation in any sense of the word.
Last edited by the doctor on Sat May 01, 2010 4:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

thedoc
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:58 pm

Post by thedoc »

the doctor wrote:
If you use the beta version then you accept that you are using a test version. Live with it or go back to using the 3.9 Final Release.
I don't think you want to send people to v3.9 Final Release. I had problems with 3.9 Final Release and need to run v3.95 Beta 3. I don't remember why anymore. I do remember being at v3.8 and having to move because super search would not work with it anymore. Thus I ended up at v3.95 Beta 3. I am running fine here. I don't plan on moving to v4 until it has been released and stable for a long while.

My preference is to be running a stable release. Other people may have the same preference. Maybe the stable version from the 3.9 branch should have been called something other than 3.95 Beta to avoid confusion.

I do wish there was a better effort to define the features for a particular release, test and bug fix until stable. Every time new features are added it moves the release date out. That is the nature of software development.

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the doctor
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Post by the doctor »

I don't think you want to send people to v3.9 Final Release. I had problems with 3.9 Final Release and need to run v3.95 Beta 3. I don't remember why anymore. I do remember being at v3.8 and having to move because super search would not work with it anymore. Thus I ended up at v3.95 Beta 3. I am running fine here. I don't plan on moving to v4 until it has been released and stable for a long while.
Yes, you are correct...

Sorry, I did not put the 5 on the end, but v3.95 is what I was trying to refer to (I believe that is the only other one listed for download on the regular d/l site page).

The last Final Release

I had forgotten there was a 3.90 before that.

My point was DO NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT A BETA VERSION

abeloin
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:44 pm

Post by abeloin »

Is newsleecher having a date bug? As of today, all new headers are dated from 2010-03-01 instead of 2010-05-01.

My PC clock is at the correct date and tried it on another PC with the same results.

Also I don't get this behaviour with Xnews, so not related with my usenet provider.

buzzword147
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:51 pm

Re: You need to appologize

Post by buzzword147 »

terrestrial wrote:

Dude, Are you kiddin me?

The damn program has been in BETA for almost 2 years now and is still full of bugs that don't get get resolved easy. Spiril keeps adding new features which we don't directly need but creating tons of new bugs. We need stable code and a final release first!!!

I think we all have every right to complain about many things here and ofcourse it's easy to say if you don't like it stay away. But we all like the newsleecher concept, that is when it works like it should and what we're paying for. It seems this is sort of a hobby project for Spiril because he laks some serious commitment to his customers.

I mean look at Supersearch, great powerful tool which in every way is better then all those other free usenet indexers, but the rentention is half it should be and there is many disruptions in service.

Spiril should be obligated to bring out a final release every 6 months. I think that's reasonable and then we know what to expect. And maybe he should hire some people with lots of programming skills/expericene to kill all the bugs for him.
Man, are you ever a thoughtless dickhead.

I have two pieces of advice for you:

1) Learn to program and write the damn code yourself,

2) Stop using beta software, or barring that, be bright enough to know what the term means.

Yes, you do need to apologize.

People like you make programmers want to give up programming.

pzam
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:34 pm

seems to be a problem with getting headers today.

Post by pzam »

v4.ob16rc3
new problem
may 1

there seems to be a problem now with getting headers. about midnight all the headers do not seem to be updating correctly.

I counted and newsleecher is showing about 23 articles to download. I checked on binsearch and it shows over 117 during the same period on may first.

I can use nzb from another source to get a file even if there is no trace of it on the header list.
Last edited by pzam on Sat May 01, 2010 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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the doctor
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Post by the doctor »

I am having the same problem - noticed some new headers are being dated 2-28-10 (Feb 28, 2010 - 61 days).

Seems to have happened just after midight.

Perhaps something wrong with the way NL is converting dates newer than April 30, 2010??? Or, maybe just the May 1, 2010 date.

Marilith
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:04 pm

I have to agree ...

Post by Marilith »

terrestrial wrote: Dude, Are you kiddin me?

The damn program has been in BETA for almost 2 years now and is still full of bugs that don't get get resolved easy. Spiril keeps adding new features which we don't directly need but creating tons of new bugs. We need stable code and a final release first!!!

I think we all have every right to complain about many things here and ofcourse it's easy to say if you don't like it stay away. But we all like the newsleecher concept, that is when it works like it should and what we're paying for. It seems this is sort of a hobby project for Spiril because he laks some serious commitment to his customers.

I mean look at Supersearch, great powerful tool which in every way is better then all those other free usenet indexers, but the rentention is half it should be and there is many disruptions in service.

Spiril should be obligated to bring out a final release every 6 months. I think that's reasonable and then we know what to expect. And maybe he should hire some people with lots of programming skills/expericene to kill all the bugs for him.
Newsleecher is developed in a very strange way. The application is in beta too long, and there seems no plan for features. Features go in and out again, sometimes they work, then they stop to work, are removed, or replaced or never heard of again.
This is chaos, not development. I see no stable version, no finished work for the next time. Even if one of the betas is named 'Release Candidate'.
I cannot even remember the features which were in, then out again, then in in another form, then not working, working again and so on.

And now we have the date problem. In itself a small problem, but with consequences, because my carefully maintained header store (where I delete SPAM manually, since there is only a weak filtering available) are about to go down the drain - again. Header format changes (hey, simply fetch them new), compressed headers (which do sometimes not work and are refetched entirely), errors in the program, and so on...

I am now actively looking for alternatives. Every third or fourth time I try to use Supersearch it is not reachable or 'down for maintenance' or something else happened...

Newsleecher is in itself are nice program - but its too expensive for a permanent beta version, and the Supersearch feature is too unstable to make this situation better. I see Open Source programs with much better planning and much better feature lists - and this with teams of volunteers, which often have never met and live in distant countries.

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the doctor
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Post by the doctor »

Newsleecher is in itself are nice program - but its too expensive for a permanent beta version, and the Supersearch feature is too unstable to make this situation better.
Too expensive????

$29.99 per year for both Supersearch and NewsLeacher is too expensive?

Gee, sounds like a pretty good deal to me!

$2.50 / month

$0.57 / week

$0.08 / day (yes, that’s 8 cents per day).

I bet you waste 8 cents per day just by running the air conditioner in your house to low or by accelerating your car too fast.

I use Supersearch on a daily basis through out the day and I find it to be working at least 99% of the time if not more. Maybe once every 1000 searches I get the message about SS being down for some reason and for a very short time.

That is phenomenal up-time.

Lord Crc
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:58 pm

Post by Lord Crc »

the doctor wrote:Gee, sounds like a pretty good deal to me!
Good for you. However what a thing is worth is of course highly relative to the individual making that judgement.

While I personally feel I get an acceptable deal, I do agree with Marilith that the development of Newsleecher appears very chaotic. For instance, regression bugs are the norm, and frequently I find myself having to pick between upgrading for stability or staying behind for a much wanted feature.

I'm fully aware that it is beta software, however the way the progress moves all over makes me concerned about the final outcome. Not to mention that we're two weeks shy of the two year anniversary of the official stable release.

I know I know, rewriting the core understandably took a lot of time etc etc. However I feel confident in saying that progress would have been faster if the developer didn't have to fix the same bugs over and over. Not to mention smoother for us customers.

That said, the only bug that really annoys me with this version is the compressed header download corruption causing NL to download all the headers for the group again.

Pfylip
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:30 pm

Post by Pfylip »

the doctor wrote: Sorry, I did not put the 5 on the end, but v3.95 is what I was trying to refer to (I believe that is the only other one listed for download on the regular d/l site page).

The last Final Release

I had forgotten there was a 3.90 before that.

My point was DO NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT A BETA VERSION
I believe the last final release was 3.90, 3.95 is still beta. I had to upgrade to 3.95 back then to resolve other problems and the final version was never released. In a normal development cycle the phrase "DO NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT A BETA VERSION" would be accurate, but for NL you'd be stuck with outdated software with features that may not even work fully if you went back to 3.90.

I fully agree people shouldn't complain about alpha/beta software normally, but this is far from normal here, when we seem to have endless betas and the final versions seem to be no better than the betas. I've been paying for 3 years now and when I went to renew for the 3rd year I realized I've been using a beta for over 2 years. That makes me seek out alternatives, and soon as I find one I'll be switching unless stable versions start coming out more frequently and bug ridden features quit being added before a stable version is released.

I just searched for some pars for a post I downloaded 3 months ago and SS turned up nothing. I went to binsearch.info and found the post, downloaded the nzb and imported into NL and got the pars I needed. This has happened for me many times, even in 3.9...how about we fix that problem and the others before adding new stuff we didn't ask for?

tommo123
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:43 pm

Post by tommo123 »

i juts came in here to complain about this too.

and yes, i can and will complain about a beta. don't like it - blow me. we have to use the betas and the last final release was ages ago and wasn't stable anyway.

i am paying for this service and am not getting my moneys worth. i am paying for supersearch and end up using the free binsearch site more often these days.

now this stupid date bug and no official word? no 'we're working on it', no ETA on a fix. nothing!

anyone know any decent alternatives to NL? paid for or not? tried grabit but doesn't suit me

Marilith
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:04 pm

Post by Marilith »

the doctor wrote:
Too expensive????

$29.99 per year for both Supersearch and NewsLeacher is too expensive?

Gee, sounds like a pretty good deal to me!

$2.50 / month

$0.57 / week

$0.08 / day (yes, that’s 8 cents per day).

I bet you waste 8 cents per day just by running the air conditioner in your house to low or by accelerating your car too fast.

I use Supersearch on a daily basis through out the day and I find it to be working at least 99% of the time if not more. Maybe once every 1000 searches I get the message about SS being down for some reason and for a very short time.

That is phenomenal up-time.
Besides the fact that I neither have nor need an air conditioner in my home...
Look at the offering:
We have NL 3.9 - Now 2 years old stable release with a lot of unfixed bugs.
We have NL 4.x - A series of 16 beta releases
This is what you find on the official download page. Other versions, older betas and so on exist.
Fact is, that there is no Newsleecher release, that is stable and usable. I use it and pay for 3 years now. When I joined, there were stable versions, but not for 2 years now.

It is also fact, that you do 1-3 beta releases at max. What we have here is a series of alpha releases. Because a beta release is 'feature complete', i.e. no new features are put in, only bug fixes. This is the normal way. Exceptions may exist - but here we are working as software testers in a development cycle.

I am sorry - but I feel abused as a paying beta tester. Either you use an unstable old 'stable release', or you use an older beta release, or you have to go with current beta releases.

Newsleecher at this time is 'Banana Software' - it ripens at the customers computer.

I feel it right to criticize this, and I feel that we as beta testers are paying too much. We should get this for free. Supersearch is not an argument for the price - there are free similar services out there (www.binsearch.info for example) with a longer retention, stable behavior and no drop outs.

But if you like this who am I to correct you? Still I will express my doubts here, when I feel like it.

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the doctor
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Using the beta version is a privilege - not a requirement

Post by the doctor »

I am sorry - but I feel abused as a paying beta tester. Either you use an unstable old 'stable release', or you use an older beta release, or you have to go with current beta releases.

Newsleecher at this time is 'Banana Software' - it ripens at the customers computer.

I feel it right to criticize this, and I feel that we as beta testers are paying too much. We should get this for free. Supersearch is not an argument for the price - there are free similar services out there (www.binsearch.info for example) with a longer retention, stable behavior and no drop outs.
IF YOU FEEL THAT WAY THEN THERE IS A VERY SIMPLE SOLUTION

DON'T USE THE BETA

Using the beta version is a privilege - not a requirement!

Definition: Beta-software - pre-release software still in the process of development made available to "beta-testers" for the purpose of identifying problems in the application. Because of the nature of beta-software, running such software could potentially cause system-wide problems.

When installing a beta version a requirement should be to acknowledge that you are installing a test version of the software and that there are no guaranties of usability.

But, that would probably not do any good to quell the whiners.

Definition: whiner - a person given to excessive complaints and crying and whining.

You will note in all of my posts I have tried to be polite and respectful of my fellow posters - not making obscene, rude, or offensive comments.

Making obscene, rude, or offensive comments reduces us all to a lower level.

When I report problems in the software I am also respectful of the developers. Beta is TEST SOFTWARE - as stated above it is a priviledge to use the beta version and not a requirement.

And that is my final word on this particular posting subject.
Last edited by the doctor on Sun May 02, 2010 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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